Saturday of the Fifth Week of Easter.
Jesus said to his disciples: “If the world hates you, realize that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, the world would love its own; but because you do not belong to the world, and I have chosen you out of the world, the world hates you.”
That’s for sure! But who?
The intolerant disguised as tolerant. Not too long ago, someone said to me: “If you have too much of an open mind, you risk your brain falling out.” I like this quote. I really do. I think it refers to the hypocrisy that surrounds the so-called “open minded” people.
You have to be somewhat blind not to see the blatant inconsistencies of thought from those who claim to be very tolerant.
A few days ago I received some political cartoons that may have appeared in various newspapers. One particular cartoon showed President Obama speaking in front of the gun lobby and then to Planned Parenthood. To the gun lobby he said: “If there’s a step we can take to save even one child, we should take that step.” To Planned Parenthood he said: “Never mind.” Now that may have been slightly humorous, but it wasn’t accurate. What he actually said to Planned Parenthood was, “God bless you.” GOD BLESS YOU! That’s what he said. That’s accurate… and unbelievable.
A few days ago I received some political cartoons that may have appeared in various newspapers. One particular cartoon showed President Obama speaking in front of the gun lobby and then to Planned Parenthood. To the gun lobby he said: “If there’s a step we can take to save even one child, we should take that step.” To Planned Parenthood he said: “Never mind.” Now that may have been slightly humorous, but it wasn’t accurate. What he actually said to Planned Parenthood was, “God bless you.” GOD BLESS YOU! That’s what he said. That’s accurate… and unbelievable.
Another cartoon had a drawing of the drug known as “Plan B,” the morning after-pill. To the right of it was an image of a “Big Gulp” (a Seven-Eleven drink). Below “Plan B” it read: “Safe for kids.” Below the Big Gulp it read: “Not safe for kids.” How sad. And yet the cartoonist could have added so much more. For example, that Plan B is now legal and available over the counter for teens as young as fifteen-years-old. And that a Big Gulp was recently made illegal by Michael Bloomberg, the mayor of New York City. [Please note: Both cases are currently being appealed, and may very well end up before the Supreme Court.] Can you believe it? The Supreme Court???
In another recent cartoon, Tim Tebow, the now ex-football player, is with a reporter. Time Tebow tells the reporter, “I’m a Christian” and the reporter says to him, “Keep it to yourself.” Jason Collins, an NBA player, tells the same reporter: “I’m gay" and the reporter says to him, “Tell me more, you big hero!!!”
I’m not worried about Jason Collins. He will do great. Good Christians will respect him and show love for him. The secular media will adore him. But I’m not sure about future players that come out openly Christian. Will there be any compassion or respect for them?
Times have changed. But what hasn’t changed (and if it has, it’s become much worse) is the negative (stereotyping?) portrayal of Christians and Christ. Both are routinely mocked on TV by comedians; ridiculed by singers and song writers, and blasphemed by Hollywood directors and producers. The hostility has become nearly rabid. And yet only rarely have I seen that same rabid hatred projected to Muslims or Jews. Thank God for that. Thank God our President and news services quickly condemn that type of hatred. It would only make matters worse: three religions openly mocked rather than just one.
Christians are not called to be two faced. They are called to be genuine. They are not called to be “nice.” They are called to be genuinely honest and loving. They are not called to be what no one really is: “tolerant”. They are called to be another Christ. And we know what happened to the first Christ. So expect more of the same…and soon, for violence is a common response from those who know they have lost the argument.
Of course the world routinely blames Christians for their own persecution: “You deserve it!” they say. Well, we all know Christians are not perfect. But the Lord was… and it still didn’t make any difference at all.
“If you have too much of an open mind, you risk your brain falling out.”
ReplyDelete“If you don’t stand for something, you will fall for anything.” I understand what you are trying to say, but I actually want someone to convince me of where I am wrong in my understanding of a certain concept. As O’Reilly says: “convince me where I am wrong”. I know I do not “get” everything. I need to learn from others. That is just the way God made us: interdependent on each other. Otherwise, we stay too proud. (please put this in context.)
“They are not called to be what no one really is: “tolerant”. They are called to be another Christ.”
Do you not think Christ was tolerant?
Jesus was tolerant! And He is asking the same of us. ….. He was tolerant with His disciples when they didn’t get it: Peter in betrayal of Jesus and the cutting off the soldier’s ear. He was tolerant of the Pharisees: let him who has not sin, throw the first stone. Tolerance is putting up with people with patience who just don’t get it. Jesus was a teacher. He taught some with more stringent words because of where they “were”. He taught some with parables because that is where they “were”. He taught the woman at the well differently than he did the woman who had been bleeding for years. Then He taught Mary Magdalene differently as well. He met them where they “were” and He meets us where we “are”. It’s just that He uses other people (thank God!!!) to intervene for Him in this day and age…only to convince each one of us of His Love.
We can all be better teachers if we can become more tolerant of each other. Tolerance is not passivity. It costs more to be tolerant compared to intolerance.
Teachers continue to answer questions with other questions. Christians cannot answer questions with answers. That’s just too easy. Just look at Jesus.
“Tebow tells the reporter, “I’m a Christian” and the reporter says to him, “Keep it to yourself.” Jason Collins, an NBA player, tells the same reporter: “I’m gay" and the reporter says to him, “Tell me more, you big hero!!!””
ReplyDeleteNobody is suggesting that the media is calling Collins a hero just because he is gay, they are calling him a hero (a term which I greatly disagree with in this case) because he is coming out into an environment where homosexuality is seen as the antithesis of the masculine athlete. Having not really followed this story much, is anyone actually calling him a hero?
Similarly, nobody is telling Tebow to “keep it to himself” just because he is a christian. They are doing so because he cannot keep his mouth shut about being a christian. He brings it up at every opportunity and will parade his christianity at the drop of a hat. Whatever happened to MT 6:5? “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.”
In another discussion on this topic, someone posted that there needs to be a third panel, with each of the athletes saying “No.” Tebow is a christian, we all know that, but he will not stop telling everyone. That certainly is his right, but it gets old after a while. Collins does not seem to be promoting or flaunting his sexuality. He is taking an opportunity to let people know that there are homosexuals in sports. I do not know if he wants to make a big deal about it, from what I have seen he simply wanted to tell people and move on.
“I’m not worried about Jason Collins. He will do great. Good Christians will respect him and show love for him”
What about good christians like the Westboro Baptists, who routinely preach hatred for gays? Or are they not good christians? How do we know the difference? Who makes the decision on who is a good christian and who isn’t? You?
“But I’m not sure about future players that come out openly Christian. Will there be any compassion or respect for them?”
Have you watched ANY sporting event recently? How many players point to heaven or kneel and pray when they score? Ever seen the end of a football game? Many times most of the players from both teams will gather at midfield and pray. All the postgame interviews where most of the players thank god for something or other? Does god actually care about sports? Does one team win because some players pray more than others?
“Both are routinely mocked on TV by comedians; ridiculed by singers and song writers, and blasphemed by Hollywood directors and producers. The hostility has become nearly rabid.”
Really? Where? When you say hostility, do you mean like the threats of violence and death homosexuals and atheists routinely receive?
“And yet only rarely have I seen that same rabid hatred projected to Muslims or Jews”
Probably because this is predominantly a nation of christians (NOT a christian nation). Most people grow up surrounded by christianity in one for or another. There is no need to push back against jews or muslims because they make up such a small part of our culture. It is the christians who are trying to insinuate themselves into every part of our lives.
Maybe you, an atheist, give them the status of being "good Christians", because you want to argue with someone like me.
ReplyDeleteNow weren't you previously arguing that there is no standard for Christians, and that no one knows what a "good" or "bad" Christian means? If so, then why are you now saying the "good Christians like those of Westboro Church"?
Funny! I could stop there, but let's go on.
Aren't you contradicting yourself by making yourself and Westboro Church the standard of Christianity?
Now for sure, you are not contradicting me, for I have a standard of CHRISTIANITY that goes far beyond the 20th century (that is, the founding of Westboro Church) and that does not belong to me or to any contemporary, but to Jesus Christ and His Apostles (the beginning of Christianity). I didn't pick their teachings. I didn't make their authority. I didn't even choose my vocation. I accepted it.
Maybe Banana_Slug you are arguing for the sake of arguing. But maybe you are arguing they are "good Christians" because apostolic weight, historicity, sacred tradition, the earliest writings of the Christian communities, etc... are unknown to you. In this case, this has nothing to do with being an atheist. Instead, it has something to do with not doing your homework.
Here is a great opportunity for you. Look up for yourself in the Catechism of the CAtholic Church what the Church believes in. Read for yourself and from the Church's mouth, no one elses. The Catholic Church has gone through great pains to make her teachings well known and clear for all to see.
If someone today would declare themselves the President of the United States and formed their own government, would you say that it was legitimate? Maybe you would. But most likely you would dismiss it, for it doesn't follow the traditions, the written laws, the institutions of the country.
The Catholic Church is a perfect example of legitimacy. But it doesn't exclude truths found in other religions. Nor does it condemn (like the US Government would condemn) those who follow their conscience, even if they are a bit confused.
“Now weren't you previously arguing that there is no standard for Christians, and that no one knows what a "good" or "bad" Christian means? If so, then why are you now saying the "good Christians like those of Westboro Church"?”
Deleteand
“Aren't you contradicting yourself by making yourself and Westboro Church the standard of Christianity?”
I’m certainly not claiming to be any standard. The Westboro Church is a recognized christian church. They have a standard. It is their standard of christianity. I am arguing that one christians’ definition of a “good” christian can be different than another christians’ definition.
Obviously there is a standard, it just seems that many christians disagree on exactly what the details of that standard are. You say you are a christian, specifically a catholic. You have the standard of Jesus, but then in conjunction with that there are all sorts of other teachings that you must follow to be a catholic. The members of the Westboro Baptist church also has a standard, Jesus, but then they have all sorts of other teachings they must follow to be members of their church. You both claim to be christians. If I ask you, you would say you were good christains and they are not. If I asked them, they would say they are good christians and you are not (many fundamentalists do not accept catholics as legitimate christians). So who is the final authority on who is a christian and who isn’t? I won’t even worry about good and bad for now.
Westboro Baptists. Christians. Yes or no?
Presbyterians? Lutherans? Mormons? Pentecostals?
“Here is a great opportunity for you. Look up for yourself in the Catechism of the CAtholic Church what the Church believes in. Read for yourself and from the Church's mouth, no one elses.”
Can I just use my 30-ish years as a Catholic? My 13 years (K-12) of catholic school?
“The Catholic Church has gone through great pains to make her teachings well known and clear for all to see.”
I can’t say how many times I’ve been told “It’s a Mystery” “Who are we to understand the mind/will of God,” It’s all part of God’s unknown plan,” “Just pray and believe,” etc. Very well known and clear.
“If someone today would declare themselves the President of the United States and formed their own government, would you say that it was legitimate? Maybe you would. But most likely you would dismiss it, for it doesn't follow the traditions, the written laws, the institutions of the country.”
If I’m not mistaken, you already have precedence for this. Judaism was fine until the christians came along with their new laws and traditions. How do we know that, say, mormonism didn’t just do the same thing? New traditions, laws, institutions. Are they legitimate?
“But it doesn't exclude truths found in other religions. Nor does it condemn … those who follow their conscience, even if they are a bit confused.”
How did that work out during the Inquisition? Crusades? Witch Trials? I know, you’ve told me those were different times, circumstances, people were misled, mistakes were made, etc. Hindsight is 20/20, you can say now that those things were wrong. At the time they were happening, all of those actions went along with the full support of the church.
Banana_slug SAID: I’m certainly not claiming to be any standard. The Westboro Church is a recognized christian church.
DeleteI SAY: By who?
YOU SAY: "So who is the final authority on who is a christian and who isn’t? I won’t even worry about good and bad for now. Westboro Baptists. Christians. Yes or no? Presbyterians? Lutherans? Mormons? Pentecostals?
I SAY: How far can these groups trace their members? From the very beginning? Mormons? No. Pentacostals? No. Presbyterians? Lutherans? No. There names give them away. When did the Catholic Church start? Who was the first pope? What year?
Come on, Banana_slug...really? Christianity is not ignorant of history and of evidence.
BANANA_SLUG: Can I just use my 30-ish years as a Catholic? My 13 years (K-12) of catholic school?
I SAY: You can, but I can I tell you I didn't learn a thing in Catholic schools. I had to learn it all in seminary and on my own. Don't even go there. If I could meet you and ask you in person questions about your faith, how well do you think you would do? Really? Honestly? Come now, come to dallas and let me ask you.
BANANA_SLUG SAYS: If I’m not mistaken, you already have precedence for this. Judaism was fine until the christians came along with their new laws and traditions.
I SAY: "The Christians came along???" Like...as if they landed on earth or were born that way? Or was it Jews and pagans who became Christians. What do you think?
BANANA_SLUG SAID: "How did that work out during the Inquisition? Crusades? Witch Trials? I know, you’ve told me those were different times, circumstances, people were misled, mistakes were made, etc. Hindsight is 20/20, you can say now that those things were wrong. At the time they were happening, all of those actions went along with the full support of the church."
I SAY: Tell me more about the Inquisitions, please. What knowledge do you have of it other than the word? What have you read on the subject? Was it limited to a certain area? What power did Kings have during the Spanish Inquisition?
What were the Crusades? Why did the Christians fight for the Holy Lands? Why did it take them so long to finally do it? How did they lose them in the first place?
Banana_Slug: It's easy to throw mud, but these issues need to be studied, and studied carefully and objectively.
Let me ask you: Why did the Holocaust happen in Germany of all places? And in the 1930's of all times? You know...well after the "Enlightenment". Why didn't it happen earlier? What philosophers do you think influenced this negativity towards Jews and cheapening of human life in general? Could it have been atheistic thought of Frauerbach and Nietzsche, who made man a god? Where did the ideas of "the inferior ones" come from?
Why so much horror in the 20th century? And by atheists in general?
The Holocaust is one of the greatest tragedies of human history. The gulags and the extermination of over 10 million Russians from the atheist Joseph Stalin another.
Then we have abortion. 1-2 billion since the 1950's.
Why? Hindsight is 20/20, you can say now that those things were wrong. At the time they were happening, all of those actions went along with the full support of the people.
Albert Einstein wrote in Time Magazine wrote (in 1940):
Delete"Being a lover of freedom, when the nazi's came into Germany I looked to the universities to defend the truth, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the case of truth: but no, the universities immediately were silenced. Then I looked to the great newspapers, who editorials proclaimed their love of freedom. But they too were silenced. Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess, that what I once despised, I now praise unreservedly."
Bananna_slug said: "At the time they were happening, all of those actions went along with the full support of the church."
DeleteFull support of the Church? Really? How do you know? So, the USA went to war with Iraq with the full support of Americans?? Is that what people will say ten centuries from now?
Probably...and by people like you.
Do you even know what you are saying or are you just making it up as you go along.
Doesn't Tim Tebow have a right to bring it up whenever he wants?
ReplyDeleteI just heard Texas cheerleaders won a lawsuit against an atheist organization that tried to ban them from using bible verses in their banners.
I AM THRILLED!!!!!!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/09/cheerleaders-in-texas-win_n_3246190.html
We need to fight more, everywhere, overwhelming atheists so that there aren't enough days in the week for them to put on trial Christians.
“Doesn't Tim Tebow have a right to bring it up whenever he wants?”
DeleteHe absolutely does. It’s just that people tend to get a little tired of it when he makes such a show of it. Again, “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others”
I just heard Texas cheerleaders won a lawsuit against an atheist organization that tried to ban them from using bible verses in their banners.
Honestly, I don’t like it but I am not overly upset about this. It is a fine line between school sanctioned endorsement of a religion and the cheerleaders doing it on their own. Still, they are representatives of their school and this could be seen as such an endorsement. How exactly would any of you feel if they quoted the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, or the Satanic Bible?
I do wonder if the irony is lost on them when they put up signs that say “But thanks be to God, which gives us victory” and they lose?
“We need to fight more, everywhere, overwhelming atheists so that there aren't enough days in the week for them to put on trial Christians.”
Does this include all of those fights trying to get intelligent design into schools or the ten commandments into courthouses and other obviously unconstitutional actions that simply waste taxpayer money?
Banana_slug said: How exactly would any of you feel if they quoted the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, or the Satanic Bible?
DeleteI say: GREAT! Bring it on! Finally, some debates in school with regards to religious beliefs. They're all grown ups. They can have sex. They can have abortions. But they can't debate religion, or bring up the name of God in discussion?
Banana_slug SAYS: Does this include all of those fights trying to get intelligent design into schools or the ten commandments into courthouses and other obviously unconstitutional actions that simply waste taxpayer money?
I say: ABSOLUTELY! Do you not realize that the Ten Commandments are on display in the Supreme Court? It would be ridiculous for anyone to claim that the ten commandments do not represent one of the earliest written codes of law. We should not be ashamed of our past, our the influence religion has had on our nation and on our founders, especially George Washington.
Unconstitutional? Really? Let's see: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech.
So...how does a display of the ten commandments relate to a law from congress???
And tell me how a public school instructing a valedictorian not to speak of God NOT an infringement of his constitutional right to freedom of speech?
And by the way...teaching intelligent design makes a heck of a lot more sense than teaching PANSPERMIA!! What they need to do is teach it in philosophy, not in science.
Sorry, I forgot to also mention the following.
DeletePlease Banana_slug, stop quoting Scripture. You're an atheist. You don't know Scripture well enough to quote it. You are beginning to sound like some people who read parts of a book, but never finish it.
You make reference to the following quote: “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others”
READ THE WORDS..."When YOU PRAY." Keyword is "When you pray" When Tim Tebow is speaking about his faith is he praying??? Banana_slug, honestly, I do not want to offend you, but you sound silly.
So, when he speaks about his relationship to God is he praying?
Now, if we go to Church and we pray together are we being hypocrites?
If the Lord said this, then why did he tell his disciples to "Go throughout the world, preaching in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit."
So, let me guess...it's a contradiction, riiiight??? For an atheist, it is. But really, it isn't an atheist. It's someone who is ignorant of scripture.
When you read Scripture, you must not forget other parts of it. You must read it as a whole.
The mission of every Christian is to share the good news and to pray in public. It is not to be a hypocrite.
Another great article.
ReplyDeleteGreat article. Should be read by all!!! Especially atheists.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/09/pope-francis-leader-believers-and-atheists
I love the fact that atheists look to Pope Francis for guidance. Also, check this quote out from the atheist Jack Persico.
"I'd never felt that I'd missed out by being an atheist, but one thing I could use is an occasional nudge away from narcissism. It's easy to lapse into self-absorption when convinced there's no master plan or purpose for life, let alone afterlife."
Banana_Slug once said: Being an atheist only means you don't believe in God. HAHAHAHAHA!!! Like it doesn't effect the way you live your life, right? Rigggghhhhht!
“Banana_Slug once said: Being an atheist only means you don't believe in God.”
DeleteAs a definition, yes, and I’ll stand by that. Or do you have some other definition of atheist I am unaware of? Could you please tell me what your definition of atheist is?
“HAHAHAHAHA!!! Like it doesn't effect the way you live your life, right?”
You know what’s really funny? The fact that you think I’ve ever explicitly stated that. Please show me where that is. I’ll even show you where I’ve said just the opposite.
Can you please tell me what specific consequences come directly and exclusively from being an atheist?
Sorry Banana_slug, but if you claim that Christians do not have a standard (a proper "definition") for Christianity, then how can you claim you have the standard (or definition) for atheism?
ReplyDeleteDo you see how you claim a standard for yourself and not allow others to do the same?
Let's not forget how America participated in forced sterilizations! 20/20 is hindsight, correct? The point being, why is this even considered evil? Because they were forced? So are we to believe that if they had agreed, that would have made it better?
ReplyDeleteThere are many forces in play that make women abort their babies. It's common for a woman to say "I had no choice."